April 24, 2012
Nothing remotely interesting happened prior to 8pm at which time the intrepid grotto secretary arrived and began taking notes. Rumor is that introductions included each person mentioning a cave on their "bucket list" they really want to get to someday.
Attendees: About 14? Including the disembodied pixelated head of Dr. Rob Harris live from Charlotte, Ken Walsh, Peter Hertl, Carlin Karchner, Ava Pope, Martin G, Bryce S, Jacob, Matt Lubin, Riley W, Mike (sorry I missed Mike's last name), Nick, and eventually Mark D
Old Business and New Business
If any, this happened before the legendary scribe arrived.
Trip Reports
Bryce showed photos of Atwells tunnel cave with cool custom lighting by Matthew Weiss .
Great photos, Lots of water, chest deep pools, stream, nice formations cool shadow effects, Digital DSLR camera. Dodge and burn photo process technique.
Grand caverns- Ava, Jacob, and others at Grand restoration trip, re-glue formations, re-pave walkway in cave w gravel, bucket bruises etc from carrying many loads of gravel by hand. Nice dinner by Andy R. afterwards
Rest day next day. Cleanup done every Easter.
Carlin reported on Cyclops cave. 15 salamanders seen. Ava very envious of reported salamander sightings.
4 guys went, nicely decorated, in for 16 hrs, surveyed in downstream section, zip line rigged across lake and waterfall. Surveyed about 400 ft. Survey ends in walking passage.
Jacob shared about several folks going on cold sink survey. Off the old map now to new mapping! Ava and one other crossed crossed 20 ft wide 18 ft deep pit with makeshift harness, passage opened up, Survey station G17 lead goes to an intriguing big room. Picture shown of overlay on Surface map- new survey with original survey which is off by about 30 ft. Discussed magnetic declination gps error etc, Orange is the correct/newer line on his overlay to google earth map.
Rob went to Newberry-Banes /Pig hole- 170 ft entrance pit, rappel led in, entrance ledge, near Virginia Tech area, 190 ft drop, 2nd longest in Va. Rope walker system heavy and pain to take on and off, would prefer other system, banged up a bit
Sunday, Ava went to Sugar Grove area of Smyth County, VA: quarter square mile with 12 caves, Tanya is presenting on this area at NSS Convention!
Carlin, Ava, Mark D and about 25 others (many non cavers) attended a talk at UNC by Roger Brucker. A few of us had dinner with him and his wife Lynn beforehand. We met 2 of their poodles, saw their cool van/RV. cool guy, He spoke about Floyd Collins and writing the famous book, and about exploring around Mammoth Cave, KY and linking it up to other systems to form the world's longest cave and still growing as more is surveyed. (More than 360 miles currently.)
Upcoming Trips:
Pete and Rob planning to go to VAR 4/27-29
5/4 SERA - AL
Jacob wants to cave somewhere the weekend of 5/4 if anyone interested but perhaps not as far away as Alabama
JUNE 22-30 pre convention, NSS Convention (25-29) and post convention activities
July 13 grotto trip to Breathing Cave! Riley working on food, borrow helmets etc now from Grotto as we could run out
Aug 11 Copenhavers cave cleanup trip
Some in group interested in organizing a Mammoth Cave group trip
Break
Program
Knots with Carlin
Showed 2 good books - Alpine Caving Techniques and On Rope
Old saying to avoid: "If you don't know your knot tie a lot", Not a safe way in many situations!!
Knots used for General caving, set hand lines, rig etrier etc, Rig traverse such as in Cold Sink Cave etc.
End knot, mid line knot, seat harness made of Webbing
Demo followed, then practice
Lot of knots have multiple names.
Discussed and practiced several knots:
Water knot on webbing
Figure 8 on a bight
Barrell knot (1/2 of double fisherman's)
Double cows tail with knots about forearm length between
Butterfly (also called Alpine Butterfly)
Being a very knotty group we stayed past time the Museum staff wanted to go so at 10pm we took the ropes outside. Having already eaten the fearless note taker departed with presumptions that the group proceeded to a local watering hole perhaps to continue tying knots and rouse the suspicions of other patrons.
Wednesday, May 2, 2012
Thursday, March 29, 2012
TriTrogs General Meeting
NC Museum of Natural Sciences
March 27, 2012
General socializing 7:30 to 7:39
Meeting start 7:40
Attendees: 13 Cavers: Carlin Kartchner, Avery Chipka, Martin Groenewegen, Ava Pope, Riley Warhime, Hovering Head of Rob Harris (live via ethernet), Nick Henderson, Mark Daughtridge, Bryce Schroeder, Peter Hertl, Ken Walsh, Ryan Zelstead, Jacob Jackson
During Introductions every one told what State they were born in. Newcomer Avery just moved here from Florida and is a veteran cave diver and mentioned that it’s theoretically possible through a network of caves to swim all the way across that state underground. Surprisingly few of the TriTrogs are originally from North Carolina.
Old Business-
none
New Business-
None
(Officers are trying to handle any actual business outside of the grotto meetings.)
Trip Reports-
Vertical Practice- about 9 cavers attended to learn and practice good techniques new to some- frog, rope walker, rack rappel, change over, etc. Included a rope on a pulley for continuous climbing. Hope to do again before convention.
“Memorial Day Cave”- (Carlin) cleanup, survey, ran out of gear to get to top, awesome looking lead up there. Too exciting of a climb, strait as a traverse. But got to old brittle flows tossed hammer as a grappling hook, tether to drill caught fall sixty feet up then. 200 ft climb led to 10 ft of passage. Long crawl w pack eating crack, 125 ft drop Other interesting passages. Just shy of 20 miles of cave so far
Wilderness First Aid- Up early for Martin, Class was worthwhile and enjoyed by Martin, Mark, Ken, Peter and Matthew L. plus 4 climbers. CPR training needed to round out, Avery CPR instructor, Avery and Martin to discuss options for group CPR training and rates
Ava- subway in NYC has soda straws forming on the ceilings
Norman Cave- (Rob) beginners, good group, cold water, some folks got cold, great white way target didn’t get to, WVACS was good place to stay
Upcoming Trips-
March 31-4/1 small cave in Smyth county fluorescent light on inverter, photo trip, 1461 ft cave, still confirming trip w/ land owner, Contact Bryce or Matthew Weiss if interested. Day trip
March 30-Apr 1 Cave Rescue Class Harrisonburg, VA See www.er-ncrc.org See Mark D. Class reported as full
Apr 7–8 Grand Caverns Restoration Cleanup Weekend See Ken, clean formations, trash, change light bulbs etc Ava, Matthew Lubin, Bryce and Ken likely going. About 40 cavers total. Leave Friday night
4-14 Cyclops cave survey, Vertical 6 miles mapped so far, 11 short rope drops, waterfalls, re-belays, tyrolean/zip, to survey bottom of cave
Apr 20–22 Cold Sink Cave Survey- See Carlin. Jacob, Ken, Dave also going. Dress warmly. Vertical not required, but optional. Multiple survey teams. Leave/return times TBD by group.
Apr 27–29 Spring VAR Poor Farm Festival Grounds, Williamsburg, WV See varegion.org
Good gear vendors- Avery going.
5/5 Dave Duguid, going on family trip w/ Dawson age 11. Others welcome. Zip line next day?, Cave TBD
5/4-6 SERA Summer Cave Carnival
May 25–28 Kentucky SpeleoFest
June 24-29 NSS Natnl Convention Lewisburg/ Greenbrier Cnty WV (5hr drive) See nss2012.com
July 13-15 Grotto Trip- good for beginners, fun, see Ken
Early Aug- Copenhaver’s Cleanup 8/11-12
Discussion:
Busted Turtle Cave map now published, Smyth county VA, (pit above Cotton)
Break
Program – Peter Hertl on Biospeleology, PhD Dept Entomology NCSU
Basic Cave Biology
Books- used book stores- The Live of The Cave by Pulson, from 1966, still one of the best overviews $20 or less fun even as coffee table book good illustrations
Cave Live, by Culver, very technical, no photos, less fun
Distribution of caves- cool map of caves with bio distribution
Terms
Trogloxene- cave visitors, must return to surface (bats etc)
Troglophile cave lover can live whole life in cave but can also be outside
Troglobite, cave dweller ONLY.
Troglodyte- humans only cave dwellers stayed near entrances, example of trogloxene
Accidentals- like busted turtles, snakes, etc, deer, cattle etc. snakes may live a while but don’t thrive
Cave zones, entrance, variable temps, sunlight, green vegetation, can be large, often very small
Twilight zone less light, minor temp changes, minimal plant life
Dark Zone, no light, constant temp
Diff Habitats- Streams, pools, may or not be surface connected
Cracks, crevices,
Organic debris
Mud/soil
Rock and formations- bacteria live in rocks miles underground. Crystal cave biologist searching for bacteria w/I crystals (see Nat geo video)
Temperate – little organic matter, seasonal bats, no flooding, only periodic flooding, low temps, hard living, low #, many adaptations, old guano hard and dry from former large populations of bats
vs Tropical caves- much organic matter, year rnd bats, much guano, rainy season floods, high temps, easy living, high numbers and few adaptations (many roaches etc)
factors for life- darkness, limited food supply, conservation of energy, pre-adaptation before they got into caves
Food pyramid outside vs inside caves
Food web based on plants outside, but no plants in cave.
In cave starts with material washed in from outdoors, bat guano, etc. no energy originates in cave.
Populations sparse and spread in caves
Typical modifications white, reduced eyes/eyeless, slow metabolism, omnivore/predator, elongated appendages- to detect predators or prey
Pigments for warning, attracting mates etc, protection from solar damage, camo, etc. pigment production takes energy so natural advantage to have no pigment or eyes.
Birds, shrews etc burn lots of energy and need much food and do poorly if in a cave
Preadaptation- echolocation in bats good example. Developed for foraging outside for nocturnal flight and finding prey
Other characteristics- nocturnal, non visual sensory systems, touch/chemo sensation/smell, tolerate or need moist environment- mostly damp in east/tropics, live in the region, slow metabolism, live in cracks, crevices or soil, feed on detritus, predators
What lives in caves?
Bacteria
Fungi
Tartigrades- live in soil, interstitial liquids, water bearers
Mites- in all soil
Many others
We generally can’t observe the above.
Fungi- may see them growing on organic matter, wood, extend mysillium out looking for other sources (looks like veins in lungs etc)
Terrestrial arthropods- many legs and crunch when squashed exoskeleton
Centipedes are predators some have poison jaws, one pair of legs per segment may see in houses
Red colors may warn of poison to other predators can get 30 in long in tropics
Millipedes, most feed on detritus, bacteria, fungi 2 pairs of legs per segment.
May be lots of very small entrances for critters much closer to what appears to us to be deep into the cave- tree roots etc from surface
Some true cave millipedes- white, antennae (not seen on outsiders)
Arachnids- spider like things. Includes scorpions, pseudoscorpions (very small)
Meta Americana a troglophile, - very sparse webs, wait and grab strategy, usually closer to entrance, small flies drawn in w/ airflow
Daddy long legs- in twilight zone in huge mass of 100 or so and come in and out of the cave
Can find mites on spider legs or other insects, could be feeding or just traveling with them
Ticks have 8 legs but very rare in a cave
Raccoons just visitors and would stay w/i twilight zone mostly.
Small Insects:
Cave Silverfish, very long antennae
Collembola feed on detritus, feces, fungus
May notice in large colonies. “Springtails” that they jump with. May see them on water surface 1/3 size of a grain of rice
Cave beetles, most are outsiders. Most predatory. Metallic, shiny, black in gardens, can be more reddish in cave types. Very small, feed on cricket eggs etc. have to look hard to find them
Cave crickets, related to camel crickets which can live in caves, like moisture, long antennae, very well adapted because like dark and wet
Aquatic cave invertebrates:
Isopods- pill/sow bugs example terrestrial isopod. All others live in water
Very small, white, long appendages, no apparent eye ¾ inch body length or less
Wait and stare at water a long long time to see them. Move slowly
Amphipods- small aquatic crustacean, very small < ¼ inch look a bit like shrimp, sea monkeys, brine shrimp
Crayfish- water flows into/out of cave- crayfish can transition into cave from either direction, feed on organic matter, fish, etc, can be far back in caves but still brown. Wander for miles as long as find food. Lots of species of crayfish. Some nocturnal
Troglobitic Crayfish- eyeless, pigmentless, very long antennae, extended more delicate claw
Do a lot of sitting around. Sit and wait for prey, don’t draw attention from predators
(Peter’s HS biology teacher was cave biologist. )
Kentucky Cave Shrimp
Cave dwelling vertebrates w/ backbone
Bats, rats, birds, amphibians, fish
Rats- tame same as pack rats/woodland rat, find nests sticks, film cans, beer tab, wrapper
Can be far back but usually near entrance
Less common now than past. Rodent diseases may have decimated, fairly cute so not hunted by people much
Only true cave dwelling bird is the South American Oilbird/ or Watchita (spelling?), see glow of their eyes like raccoon eyes, high nest above cave floor, over water . Can echolocate. Audible click
Oilbirds feed on seeds of tropical fruit trees. Wide ranging, spread seeds, vital to rare seeds. Sprouts in bird guano within cave even back in dark, grow a bit white/green and then die w/o light
Salamanders
Texas Cave Salamander one of most adapter.
Some highly/exclusively aquatic
Wait patiently for slightest vibration in the water and attack quickly
Were first discovered from wells
Tenn Cave salamander paddle like tail
Spring salamander in VA, NC, etc,
Neotenic- adults keep juvenile characteristics- such as gills normally lost in adults outside of caves
May only be white in larval or adult stage
Slimy Salamander- lays eggs on land, are accurately named. Can be up to 4 inches
Cave fish – (mammoth cave picture), just hover and wait
Chemosensory, lateral line- sensitive to vibrations
Threats to cave biota:
Mining and development
Siltation- dirt particles from land moving equipment
Pesticides, chemicals, fertilization
Pollution, industrial, human, animal waste
Sealing cave entrances- gating much better- all energy must come in from outside
Cavers
Leave No Trace and watch where you step!!!
After the meeting- Armadillo Grill (no Armadillos or Cave Biota were harmed in the making of after meeting festivities.)
March 27, 2012
General socializing 7:30 to 7:39
Meeting start 7:40
Attendees: 13 Cavers: Carlin Kartchner, Avery Chipka, Martin Groenewegen, Ava Pope, Riley Warhime, Hovering Head of Rob Harris (live via ethernet), Nick Henderson, Mark Daughtridge, Bryce Schroeder, Peter Hertl, Ken Walsh, Ryan Zelstead, Jacob Jackson
During Introductions every one told what State they were born in. Newcomer Avery just moved here from Florida and is a veteran cave diver and mentioned that it’s theoretically possible through a network of caves to swim all the way across that state underground. Surprisingly few of the TriTrogs are originally from North Carolina.
Old Business-
none
New Business-
None
(Officers are trying to handle any actual business outside of the grotto meetings.)
Trip Reports-
Vertical Practice- about 9 cavers attended to learn and practice good techniques new to some- frog, rope walker, rack rappel, change over, etc. Included a rope on a pulley for continuous climbing. Hope to do again before convention.
“Memorial Day Cave”- (Carlin) cleanup, survey, ran out of gear to get to top, awesome looking lead up there. Too exciting of a climb, strait as a traverse. But got to old brittle flows tossed hammer as a grappling hook, tether to drill caught fall sixty feet up then. 200 ft climb led to 10 ft of passage. Long crawl w pack eating crack, 125 ft drop Other interesting passages. Just shy of 20 miles of cave so far
Wilderness First Aid- Up early for Martin, Class was worthwhile and enjoyed by Martin, Mark, Ken, Peter and Matthew L. plus 4 climbers. CPR training needed to round out, Avery CPR instructor, Avery and Martin to discuss options for group CPR training and rates
Ava- subway in NYC has soda straws forming on the ceilings
Norman Cave- (Rob) beginners, good group, cold water, some folks got cold, great white way target didn’t get to, WVACS was good place to stay
Upcoming Trips-
March 31-4/1 small cave in Smyth county fluorescent light on inverter, photo trip, 1461 ft cave, still confirming trip w/ land owner, Contact Bryce or Matthew Weiss if interested. Day trip
March 30-Apr 1 Cave Rescue Class Harrisonburg, VA See www.er-ncrc.org See Mark D. Class reported as full
Apr 7–8 Grand Caverns Restoration Cleanup Weekend See Ken, clean formations, trash, change light bulbs etc Ava, Matthew Lubin, Bryce and Ken likely going. About 40 cavers total. Leave Friday night
4-14 Cyclops cave survey, Vertical 6 miles mapped so far, 11 short rope drops, waterfalls, re-belays, tyrolean/zip, to survey bottom of cave
Apr 20–22 Cold Sink Cave Survey- See Carlin. Jacob, Ken, Dave also going. Dress warmly. Vertical not required, but optional. Multiple survey teams. Leave/return times TBD by group.
Apr 27–29 Spring VAR Poor Farm Festival Grounds, Williamsburg, WV See varegion.org
Good gear vendors- Avery going.
5/5 Dave Duguid, going on family trip w/ Dawson age 11. Others welcome. Zip line next day?, Cave TBD
5/4-6 SERA Summer Cave Carnival
May 25–28 Kentucky SpeleoFest
June 24-29 NSS Natnl Convention Lewisburg/ Greenbrier Cnty WV (5hr drive) See nss2012.com
July 13-15 Grotto Trip- good for beginners, fun, see Ken
Early Aug- Copenhaver’s Cleanup 8/11-12
Discussion:
Busted Turtle Cave map now published, Smyth county VA, (pit above Cotton)
Break
Program – Peter Hertl on Biospeleology, PhD Dept Entomology NCSU
Basic Cave Biology
Books- used book stores- The Live of The Cave by Pulson, from 1966, still one of the best overviews $20 or less fun even as coffee table book good illustrations
Cave Live, by Culver, very technical, no photos, less fun
Distribution of caves- cool map of caves with bio distribution
Terms
Trogloxene- cave visitors, must return to surface (bats etc)
Troglophile cave lover can live whole life in cave but can also be outside
Troglobite, cave dweller ONLY.
Troglodyte- humans only cave dwellers stayed near entrances, example of trogloxene
Accidentals- like busted turtles, snakes, etc, deer, cattle etc. snakes may live a while but don’t thrive
Cave zones, entrance, variable temps, sunlight, green vegetation, can be large, often very small
Twilight zone less light, minor temp changes, minimal plant life
Dark Zone, no light, constant temp
Diff Habitats- Streams, pools, may or not be surface connected
Cracks, crevices,
Organic debris
Mud/soil
Rock and formations- bacteria live in rocks miles underground. Crystal cave biologist searching for bacteria w/I crystals (see Nat geo video)
Temperate – little organic matter, seasonal bats, no flooding, only periodic flooding, low temps, hard living, low #, many adaptations, old guano hard and dry from former large populations of bats
vs Tropical caves- much organic matter, year rnd bats, much guano, rainy season floods, high temps, easy living, high numbers and few adaptations (many roaches etc)
factors for life- darkness, limited food supply, conservation of energy, pre-adaptation before they got into caves
Food pyramid outside vs inside caves
Food web based on plants outside, but no plants in cave.
In cave starts with material washed in from outdoors, bat guano, etc. no energy originates in cave.
Populations sparse and spread in caves
Typical modifications white, reduced eyes/eyeless, slow metabolism, omnivore/predator, elongated appendages- to detect predators or prey
Pigments for warning, attracting mates etc, protection from solar damage, camo, etc. pigment production takes energy so natural advantage to have no pigment or eyes.
Birds, shrews etc burn lots of energy and need much food and do poorly if in a cave
Preadaptation- echolocation in bats good example. Developed for foraging outside for nocturnal flight and finding prey
Other characteristics- nocturnal, non visual sensory systems, touch/chemo sensation/smell, tolerate or need moist environment- mostly damp in east/tropics, live in the region, slow metabolism, live in cracks, crevices or soil, feed on detritus, predators
What lives in caves?
Bacteria
Fungi
Tartigrades- live in soil, interstitial liquids, water bearers
Mites- in all soil
Many others
We generally can’t observe the above.
Fungi- may see them growing on organic matter, wood, extend mysillium out looking for other sources (looks like veins in lungs etc)
Terrestrial arthropods- many legs and crunch when squashed exoskeleton
Centipedes are predators some have poison jaws, one pair of legs per segment may see in houses
Red colors may warn of poison to other predators can get 30 in long in tropics
Millipedes, most feed on detritus, bacteria, fungi 2 pairs of legs per segment.
May be lots of very small entrances for critters much closer to what appears to us to be deep into the cave- tree roots etc from surface
Some true cave millipedes- white, antennae (not seen on outsiders)
Arachnids- spider like things. Includes scorpions, pseudoscorpions (very small)
Meta Americana a troglophile, - very sparse webs, wait and grab strategy, usually closer to entrance, small flies drawn in w/ airflow
Daddy long legs- in twilight zone in huge mass of 100 or so and come in and out of the cave
Can find mites on spider legs or other insects, could be feeding or just traveling with them
Ticks have 8 legs but very rare in a cave
Raccoons just visitors and would stay w/i twilight zone mostly.
Small Insects:
Cave Silverfish, very long antennae
Collembola feed on detritus, feces, fungus
May notice in large colonies. “Springtails” that they jump with. May see them on water surface 1/3 size of a grain of rice
Cave beetles, most are outsiders. Most predatory. Metallic, shiny, black in gardens, can be more reddish in cave types. Very small, feed on cricket eggs etc. have to look hard to find them
Cave crickets, related to camel crickets which can live in caves, like moisture, long antennae, very well adapted because like dark and wet
Aquatic cave invertebrates:
Isopods- pill/sow bugs example terrestrial isopod. All others live in water
Very small, white, long appendages, no apparent eye ¾ inch body length or less
Wait and stare at water a long long time to see them. Move slowly
Amphipods- small aquatic crustacean, very small < ¼ inch look a bit like shrimp, sea monkeys, brine shrimp
Crayfish- water flows into/out of cave- crayfish can transition into cave from either direction, feed on organic matter, fish, etc, can be far back in caves but still brown. Wander for miles as long as find food. Lots of species of crayfish. Some nocturnal
Troglobitic Crayfish- eyeless, pigmentless, very long antennae, extended more delicate claw
Do a lot of sitting around. Sit and wait for prey, don’t draw attention from predators
(Peter’s HS biology teacher was cave biologist. )
Kentucky Cave Shrimp
Cave dwelling vertebrates w/ backbone
Bats, rats, birds, amphibians, fish
Rats- tame same as pack rats/woodland rat, find nests sticks, film cans, beer tab, wrapper
Can be far back but usually near entrance
Less common now than past. Rodent diseases may have decimated, fairly cute so not hunted by people much
Only true cave dwelling bird is the South American Oilbird/ or Watchita (spelling?), see glow of their eyes like raccoon eyes, high nest above cave floor, over water . Can echolocate. Audible click
Oilbirds feed on seeds of tropical fruit trees. Wide ranging, spread seeds, vital to rare seeds. Sprouts in bird guano within cave even back in dark, grow a bit white/green and then die w/o light
Salamanders
Texas Cave Salamander one of most adapter.
Some highly/exclusively aquatic
Wait patiently for slightest vibration in the water and attack quickly
Were first discovered from wells
Tenn Cave salamander paddle like tail
Spring salamander in VA, NC, etc,
Neotenic- adults keep juvenile characteristics- such as gills normally lost in adults outside of caves
May only be white in larval or adult stage
Slimy Salamander- lays eggs on land, are accurately named. Can be up to 4 inches
Cave fish – (mammoth cave picture), just hover and wait
Chemosensory, lateral line- sensitive to vibrations
Threats to cave biota:
Mining and development
Siltation- dirt particles from land moving equipment
Pesticides, chemicals, fertilization
Pollution, industrial, human, animal waste
Sealing cave entrances- gating much better- all energy must come in from outside
Cavers
Leave No Trace and watch where you step!!!
After the meeting- Armadillo Grill (no Armadillos or Cave Biota were harmed in the making of after meeting festivities.)
Tuesday, March 13, 2012
TriTrogs General meeting
NC Museum of Natural Sciences
February 28, 2012
General socializing 7:30 to 7:35
Meeting start 7:35
Attendees: 21 Cavers: Carlin Kartchner, Mike Broome, Martin Groenewegen, Ava Pope, Mark Daughtridge, Howard Holgate, Hayden Holgate, Matthew Weiss, Ken Walsh, Bryce Schroeder, Peter Hertl, Bob Massengle, David Dicehurst, Rob Harris' hovering head (via laptop), Riley Warehime, Nick Henderson, Jacob Jackson, Michael Caslin, Grant Molnar, Steve Molnar, Jordan Kendal
Introductions included each person's favorite cave and favorite beer if any.
Old Business-
T Shirts, patches or stickers- If interested in forming a committee to pursue see Carlin
Grotto donation of $200 to the Friends of the Museum has been completed!
New PO Box now posted on web
Payment of 2012 Dues - Mark L not able to attend, Ken collected dues
$15 for year Dues. Reviewed briefly what they are used for
Vertical Practice was set for Sunday March 4 after checking weather forecasts
Pete, Ken, Pete, Martin and Mark L have equipment for beginners to learn on. Pete targeting March.
(Addendum to minutes- practice was held Mar 4 with several exprienced and a few new climbers/rapellers attending and much was learned with hopes to do it again soon. Held at Peter's house with a static rope and another on a pulley for continuous climbing as fed by belayer)
New Business-
See article on flu affecting bats, different from WNS
Next month's Program will be on cave biology!
Let Ken know program ideas
Trip Reports-
Paxton’s Cave, Covington VA, 1-28 - Mark, Peter, Matthew W went, explored all new territory from 1-1 trip mainly in Helictite room, more details in program with photography
Feb 11 Survey Trip to Cold Sink Cave- Carlin’s project to Survey, started b/f Tgiving, continuing survey near Marion. 2 teams, down tight passage, squeeze skills valued. Dig section has water flowing, no crawling in ice cold water this trip. Snow outside, 450’ surveyed, 1300 total now, Dave Duguid also committed to it. Old bolt traverse rigged, may be ok, needs backing up, pit rigged already to traverse, need to explore expecting only 15ft, potential unfinished leads from old map. New virgin cave discovered. Digging works best with actual tools. Prolonged crawling 50 ft of very tight opens to 12 foot ceilings, vertical only needed for the next trip, most not needing vertical
No Others
Upcoming Trips-
Mar 8 – 11, Germany Valley Karst Survey, Vertical Required! See Carlin for details, (2nd weekend ea month)
Mar 9-10 Norman’s trip- See Rob Harris
March 17-18 Wilderness First Aid, Umstead Park, Raleigh, Special $55 pricing for TriTrogs!! Mark D, Pete, Ken, Matt L currently signed up. Room for more!! See Mark D.
March 30-Apr 1 Cave Rescue Class Harrisonburg, VA See http://www.er-ncrc.org See Mark D.
Apr 7–8 Grand Caverns Restoration Cleanup Weekend See Ken, clean formations, trash, change light bulbs etc
Apr 20–22 Cold Sink Cave Survey- See Carlin
Northern High School Adventure Ed looking for simple cave to do cleanup. Worley’s in TN suggested, Tanya M knows conservation opportunities too. 4-21to 22, 5/5-6 dates preferred See Ben Gaspar
4/27 – 29 Spring VAR Poor Farm Festival Grounds, Williamsburg, WV See varegion.org
Good gear vendors
May 25–28 Kentucky SpeleoFest
June 24-29 NSS Convention- Lewisburg/ Greenbrier Cnty WV (5hr drive) See www.nss2012.com consider going beyond stated dates for geology, history, etc sessions,
July 13-15 Grotto Trip- good for beginners, fun, see Ken
Early Aug- Copenhaver’s Cleanup
Break (lots of side discussions on training sessions, trips, paying dues, etc etc etc)
Program-
Matthew Weiss photos of Worley’s (TN), lighting w/ inverter power. Also photos from the elusive Helictite Maze, Paxton’s Cave
Showed pics of Inverter for lamp he built and discussed power and light details capabilities. Cool pics with light in position in Worleys, TN, some with outdoor floodlight straps, good for easy passages, water/stream pics, wall texture
Has voltage meter etc
Nice formation pics, flowstone, 20ft high
Nice effects, flowstone w/ water in foreground
Olympus stylus point and shoot with night setting, 10 sec open
"Super photon cannon” light source
Large rooms show up well
Use painting technique of moving light around with, red glow from outdoor floodlight bulb
Boy scout guide was amazed to see room he’d not really seen as well on many prev trips
Wedding cake, bacon formations
Post manipulation of photos is cheating! says Matthew
Paxton’s friendly dog and cat shown as favorite features of the cave! Position of light matters
New breakdown, freshly cleaved, awesome formations, earthquake fractures in formations.
After the meeting- Food! Drink! Merriment! at Armadillo Grill
February 28, 2012
General socializing 7:30 to 7:35
Meeting start 7:35
Attendees: 21 Cavers: Carlin Kartchner, Mike Broome, Martin Groenewegen, Ava Pope, Mark Daughtridge, Howard Holgate, Hayden Holgate, Matthew Weiss, Ken Walsh, Bryce Schroeder, Peter Hertl, Bob Massengle, David Dicehurst, Rob Harris' hovering head (via laptop), Riley Warehime, Nick Henderson, Jacob Jackson, Michael Caslin, Grant Molnar, Steve Molnar, Jordan Kendal
Introductions included each person's favorite cave and favorite beer if any.
Old Business-
T Shirts, patches or stickers- If interested in forming a committee to pursue see Carlin
Grotto donation of $200 to the Friends of the Museum has been completed!
New PO Box now posted on web
Payment of 2012 Dues - Mark L not able to attend, Ken collected dues
$15 for year Dues. Reviewed briefly what they are used for
Vertical Practice was set for Sunday March 4 after checking weather forecasts
Pete, Ken, Pete, Martin and Mark L have equipment for beginners to learn on. Pete targeting March.
(Addendum to minutes- practice was held Mar 4 with several exprienced and a few new climbers/rapellers attending and much was learned with hopes to do it again soon. Held at Peter's house with a static rope and another on a pulley for continuous climbing as fed by belayer)
New Business-
See article on flu affecting bats, different from WNS
Next month's Program will be on cave biology!
Let Ken know program ideas
Trip Reports-
Paxton’s Cave, Covington VA, 1-28 - Mark, Peter, Matthew W went, explored all new territory from 1-1 trip mainly in Helictite room, more details in program with photography
Feb 11 Survey Trip to Cold Sink Cave- Carlin’s project to Survey, started b/f Tgiving, continuing survey near Marion. 2 teams, down tight passage, squeeze skills valued. Dig section has water flowing, no crawling in ice cold water this trip. Snow outside, 450’ surveyed, 1300 total now, Dave Duguid also committed to it. Old bolt traverse rigged, may be ok, needs backing up, pit rigged already to traverse, need to explore expecting only 15ft, potential unfinished leads from old map. New virgin cave discovered. Digging works best with actual tools. Prolonged crawling 50 ft of very tight opens to 12 foot ceilings, vertical only needed for the next trip, most not needing vertical
No Others
Upcoming Trips-
Mar 8 – 11, Germany Valley Karst Survey, Vertical Required! See Carlin for details, (2nd weekend ea month)
Mar 9-10 Norman’s trip- See Rob Harris
March 17-18 Wilderness First Aid, Umstead Park, Raleigh, Special $55 pricing for TriTrogs!! Mark D, Pete, Ken, Matt L currently signed up. Room for more!! See Mark D.
March 30-Apr 1 Cave Rescue Class Harrisonburg, VA See http://www.er-ncrc.org See Mark D.
Apr 7–8 Grand Caverns Restoration Cleanup Weekend See Ken, clean formations, trash, change light bulbs etc
Apr 20–22 Cold Sink Cave Survey- See Carlin
Northern High School Adventure Ed looking for simple cave to do cleanup. Worley’s in TN suggested, Tanya M knows conservation opportunities too. 4-21to 22, 5/5-6 dates preferred See Ben Gaspar
4/27 – 29 Spring VAR Poor Farm Festival Grounds, Williamsburg, WV See varegion.org
Good gear vendors
May 25–28 Kentucky SpeleoFest
June 24-29 NSS Convention- Lewisburg/ Greenbrier Cnty WV (5hr drive) See www.nss2012.com consider going beyond stated dates for geology, history, etc sessions,
July 13-15 Grotto Trip- good for beginners, fun, see Ken
Early Aug- Copenhaver’s Cleanup
Break (lots of side discussions on training sessions, trips, paying dues, etc etc etc)
Program-
Matthew Weiss photos of Worley’s (TN), lighting w/ inverter power. Also photos from the elusive Helictite Maze, Paxton’s Cave
Showed pics of Inverter for lamp he built and discussed power and light details capabilities. Cool pics with light in position in Worleys, TN, some with outdoor floodlight straps, good for easy passages, water/stream pics, wall texture
Has voltage meter etc
Nice formation pics, flowstone, 20ft high
Nice effects, flowstone w/ water in foreground
Olympus stylus point and shoot with night setting, 10 sec open
"Super photon cannon” light source
Large rooms show up well
Use painting technique of moving light around with, red glow from outdoor floodlight bulb
Boy scout guide was amazed to see room he’d not really seen as well on many prev trips
Wedding cake, bacon formations
Post manipulation of photos is cheating! says Matthew
Paxton’s friendly dog and cat shown as favorite features of the cave! Position of light matters
New breakdown, freshly cleaved, awesome formations, earthquake fractures in formations.
After the meeting- Food! Drink! Merriment! at Armadillo Grill
Friday, January 27, 2012
TriTrogs General meeting January 2012
NC Museum of Natural Sciences
January 24, 2012
Previous meeting: November 22nd (Minutes available online)
Last “meeting” Holiday Party Dec 10th
Attendees: 18 Cavers: Howard Holgate, Greg Dahlin, Mark Little, Norm Bedwell, Jen Bedwell, Mike Broome, Lisa Lorenzin, Martin Groenewegen, Matthew Weiss, Michael Caslin, Carlin Kartchner, Peter Hertl, Ben Gaspar, Ken Walsh, Mark Daughtridge, Matthew Lubin, Bithika Khargharia, Amar Chawla
General socializing 7:30 to 7:41
Meeting start 7:41
Old Business-
Discussed T-shirts and posting a voting mechanism on line.
TriTrogs are making a donation to our host, the museum. It’s ready just need to send it- Mark L
Vertical- Pete almost ready, needs a brief work day to setup new ropes etc
Pete, Ken, Pete, Martin and Mark L have equipment for beginners to learn on. Pete targeting March.
Review of Treasurer’s Report (Mark L) No questions were raised.
Payment of 2012 Dues (All, we hope) Many folks paid for 2012, please contact Mark L if you still need to pay dues for this year.
Join the NSS! Why to join, etc- A few folks mentioned good reasons to join such as the NSS Journal with great photos etc each month, contributing to conservation, eligibility for benefits such as some activities/caves that require it and discounts on others like convention etc
NSS Annual Report/Info Updates (Mark D) brief mention of how we update our officer info etc each year and the need for a new paper mail address to give them.
e-mail from Student, Amy Y. looking for March 10-18 cave trip (conservation) near Great Smoky Mts NP Ken and a couple of others have responded, mainly referring them to other grottos such as the western NC grotto Flittermouse.
New Business-
Elections deferred to later in the meeting as a few members had called to say they were on the way.
Upcoming Trips1-27 Paxton’s again Mark D to lead, Pete, Greg, Matthew, Martin interested, maybe not this wknd though, some prefer 2/18
Feb 11 Survey Trip to Cold Sink Cave- stay at Tanya’s house in Marion VA, tight spaces/crawls for shots coming up. Possible digs/leads Carlin leading
March 29-Apr 1 Cave Rescue Class Harrisonburg, VA See www.er-ncrc.org Just the orientation, but full weekend
4/8 Grand Caverns Restoration –Easter wknd
Ben Gaspar- educator w/ Northern High School Adventure Ed , took 8-9 high school seniors to simple cave , looking for another to do. Worley’s in TN suggested, could do cleanup during the trip, Tanya M knows conservation opportunities too. 4-21to 22, 5/5-6 dates preferred
4/27 – 29 Spring VAR Poor Farm Festival Grounds, Williamsburg, WV See varegion.org
6/24-29 NSS Convention- Lewisburg/ Greenbrier Cnty WV (5hr drive) See www.nss2012.com consider going beyond stated dates for geology, history, etc sessions,
Program (this month the program consisted only of trip reports over the 2 months since last meeting, as there was enough to discuss for the meeting after that interval)
Trip reports
Paxton’s - 10 TriTrogs descended on Paxton’s Cave near Covington, VA on January 2nd. Throne room had cool helictites, a small translucent drapery, and an impressive small bacon formation. Also a stalagmite that reportedly is crystallized enough to reflect very bright light for a second or so after they are extinguished. Without a powerful flash we didn’t get it to display this trait. We also visited the big room, found some cool fungus, and explored the breakdown room but failed to find the helictite room. It was cool to come out and find snow on the ground. The maze of this was fun challenge for navigating back to the waterfall entrance too.
Burnsville cove- Lisa & Mike, layers of limestone, looking at exposed rock, geology survey, no drilling, are looking @ road cuts etc. old books disagree about how formed. USGS geologist there. Butler cave and others in area had sandstone cap, multi layer, showed them 6hrs on surface 1hr underground tidal flats, fossils, where layers of cave ceilings and floors emerge aboveground outdoors, will name some rocks after the area possibly.
Carlin- Thanksgiving wknd, went to Santee Lakes State Park , SC found some sinks, ridgewalking, were ½ mile off from where cave turned out to be. Cave closed by USFS. Very wet at entrance, largest cave in SC? Other sinks nearby.
Carlin reported on Germany Valley- camped in cave, had a great lead climber who helped set up water collection system. Huge room with 300 foot ceiling, 600 ft below ground, lead in nearby dome room explored too. Carlin’s 1st camping trip underground. Need experience and vertical experience w/ re-belays etc. for this cave
On way back stopped by Smokehole caverns commercial, didn’t do the tour; Luray- did do the tour, wishing well impressively full of coins, donated to charity
Carlin also showed pictures from a southwest cave he’s been meaning do for a while, Southern AZ, near Mexican border, Alan Pressler only one he knew who’d been there. Very deep, Havelina droppings outside, not sure if animals inside cave such as rattlesnakes. Large bat- Townsends? 7” or so? Nice fossils, one team member studying climate change/cave research, one mine engineering, so good info. Dolomite rock. Found scorpion in the wall crack. Found fox skeleton in cave
Very tricky vertical pit, tight, 325 tied to 125, with decent place to do knot crossing.
N. Raleigh hole discussed on e-mail turned out to be small and probably from storm drain leak
Michael and Matthew described Worley’s TN trip with great pics with portable flood light
Election of Officers (Howard)
With the last 3 members now present we quickly elected a new slate of officers for 2012:
Carlin Kartchner- Chair
Ken Walsh- Vice Chair
Mark Daughtridge- Secretary
Mark Little- Treasurer
Mike Broome- Web Editor
Meeting done at 9:30
After the meeting- Fox and Hound at North Hills, courtesy of Matthew Lubin! Thanks! About 10 folks went and enjoyed free wings, pizza and non-free beer.
January 24, 2012
Previous meeting: November 22nd (Minutes available online)
Last “meeting” Holiday Party Dec 10th
Attendees: 18 Cavers: Howard Holgate, Greg Dahlin, Mark Little, Norm Bedwell, Jen Bedwell, Mike Broome, Lisa Lorenzin, Martin Groenewegen, Matthew Weiss, Michael Caslin, Carlin Kartchner, Peter Hertl, Ben Gaspar, Ken Walsh, Mark Daughtridge, Matthew Lubin, Bithika Khargharia, Amar Chawla
General socializing 7:30 to 7:41
Meeting start 7:41
Old Business-
Discussed T-shirts and posting a voting mechanism on line.
TriTrogs are making a donation to our host, the museum. It’s ready just need to send it- Mark L
Vertical- Pete almost ready, needs a brief work day to setup new ropes etc
Pete, Ken, Pete, Martin and Mark L have equipment for beginners to learn on. Pete targeting March.
Review of Treasurer’s Report (Mark L) No questions were raised.
Payment of 2012 Dues (All, we hope) Many folks paid for 2012, please contact Mark L if you still need to pay dues for this year.
Join the NSS! Why to join, etc- A few folks mentioned good reasons to join such as the NSS Journal with great photos etc each month, contributing to conservation, eligibility for benefits such as some activities/caves that require it and discounts on others like convention etc
NSS Annual Report/Info Updates (Mark D) brief mention of how we update our officer info etc each year and the need for a new paper mail address to give them.
e-mail from Student, Amy Y. looking for March 10-18 cave trip (conservation) near Great Smoky Mts NP Ken and a couple of others have responded, mainly referring them to other grottos such as the western NC grotto Flittermouse.
New Business-
Elections deferred to later in the meeting as a few members had called to say they were on the way.
Upcoming Trips1-27 Paxton’s again Mark D to lead, Pete, Greg, Matthew, Martin interested, maybe not this wknd though, some prefer 2/18
Feb 11 Survey Trip to Cold Sink Cave- stay at Tanya’s house in Marion VA, tight spaces/crawls for shots coming up. Possible digs/leads Carlin leading
March 29-Apr 1 Cave Rescue Class Harrisonburg, VA See www.er-ncrc.org Just the orientation, but full weekend
4/8 Grand Caverns Restoration –Easter wknd
Ben Gaspar- educator w/ Northern High School Adventure Ed , took 8-9 high school seniors to simple cave , looking for another to do. Worley’s in TN suggested, could do cleanup during the trip, Tanya M knows conservation opportunities too. 4-21to 22, 5/5-6 dates preferred
4/27 – 29 Spring VAR Poor Farm Festival Grounds, Williamsburg, WV See varegion.org
6/24-29 NSS Convention- Lewisburg/ Greenbrier Cnty WV (5hr drive) See www.nss2012.com consider going beyond stated dates for geology, history, etc sessions,
Program (this month the program consisted only of trip reports over the 2 months since last meeting, as there was enough to discuss for the meeting after that interval)
Trip reports
Paxton’s - 10 TriTrogs descended on Paxton’s Cave near Covington, VA on January 2nd. Throne room had cool helictites, a small translucent drapery, and an impressive small bacon formation. Also a stalagmite that reportedly is crystallized enough to reflect very bright light for a second or so after they are extinguished. Without a powerful flash we didn’t get it to display this trait. We also visited the big room, found some cool fungus, and explored the breakdown room but failed to find the helictite room. It was cool to come out and find snow on the ground. The maze of this was fun challenge for navigating back to the waterfall entrance too.
Burnsville cove- Lisa & Mike, layers of limestone, looking at exposed rock, geology survey, no drilling, are looking @ road cuts etc. old books disagree about how formed. USGS geologist there. Butler cave and others in area had sandstone cap, multi layer, showed them 6hrs on surface 1hr underground tidal flats, fossils, where layers of cave ceilings and floors emerge aboveground outdoors, will name some rocks after the area possibly.
Carlin- Thanksgiving wknd, went to Santee Lakes State Park , SC found some sinks, ridgewalking, were ½ mile off from where cave turned out to be. Cave closed by USFS. Very wet at entrance, largest cave in SC? Other sinks nearby.
Carlin reported on Germany Valley- camped in cave, had a great lead climber who helped set up water collection system. Huge room with 300 foot ceiling, 600 ft below ground, lead in nearby dome room explored too. Carlin’s 1st camping trip underground. Need experience and vertical experience w/ re-belays etc. for this cave
On way back stopped by Smokehole caverns commercial, didn’t do the tour; Luray- did do the tour, wishing well impressively full of coins, donated to charity
Carlin also showed pictures from a southwest cave he’s been meaning do for a while, Southern AZ, near Mexican border, Alan Pressler only one he knew who’d been there. Very deep, Havelina droppings outside, not sure if animals inside cave such as rattlesnakes. Large bat- Townsends? 7” or so? Nice fossils, one team member studying climate change/cave research, one mine engineering, so good info. Dolomite rock. Found scorpion in the wall crack. Found fox skeleton in cave
Very tricky vertical pit, tight, 325 tied to 125, with decent place to do knot crossing.
N. Raleigh hole discussed on e-mail turned out to be small and probably from storm drain leak
Michael and Matthew described Worley’s TN trip with great pics with portable flood light
Election of Officers (Howard)
With the last 3 members now present we quickly elected a new slate of officers for 2012:
Carlin Kartchner- Chair
Ken Walsh- Vice Chair
Mark Daughtridge- Secretary
Mark Little- Treasurer
Mike Broome- Web Editor
Meeting done at 9:30
After the meeting- Fox and Hound at North Hills, courtesy of Matthew Lubin! Thanks! About 10 folks went and enjoyed free wings, pizza and non-free beer.
Tuesday, December 6, 2011
November 2011 TriTrogs General meeting
Recorded by Ken Walsh (Secretary Mark Daughtridge unable to attend but added minor edits to this post)
NC Museum of Natural Sciences
Tuesday, November 22, 2011
Attendees (14): Steven, Travis, Ava, Howard, Hayden, Mark L., Bryce, Laurel, Allison, Carlin, Pete, Ken, Steve and Grant attended the meeting. Rob’s floating head in Charlotte appeared on Ava’s screen and occasionally spoke.
Howard Holgate led the meeting and conducted the business in short order. The Holiday Party on Saturday, December 10 will once again replace the December meeting. Howard plans to host the Holiday Party again this year at his home nestled amid Cary/Holly Springs neighborhoods. He will send out an Evite to the TriTrogs list serve to ensure that he doesn’t end up with the multitude of desserts that were generously provided last year (and left at his house). The leftover desserts did apparently find their way to a sorority house during Finals Week.
Howard plans to display the potential T-shirt designs at the Holiday Party and have everyone vote on their favorites. [He did not mention whether or not he is still accepting submissions for designs]
In terms of upcoming trips, the following two were discussed:
December 3 – Travis is planning a sport trip, possibly to Worley’s/Morrell Cave in Tennessee
December 31 – Ken, Steve, and Grant may be planning a sport horizontal trip
Ken mentioned that the grotto had not made a charity donation this year. Suggestions were made to donate money to WNS research, the museum where we hold meetings, or cave conservancies. After a short discussion and a proposal, the TriTrog members voted to donate $200 to the Friends of the Museum. Pete H. will get Mark L. in touch with the right person.
Carlin shared a trip report about surveying in Cold Sink Cave (Smyth County, VA). His weekend plans had fallen apart, so he contacted Dave Duguid about joining that trip. The cave had been listed as Big Spring Cave on previous maps, but the lack of a spring or even a resurgence point suggested that this title had been a misnomer. The frost in the sinkhole at 11 AM on a warm fall day warranted the name change to Cold Sink Cave.
Carlin reported that two teams began the survey on Saturday and that they returned to the cave on Sunday. They netted roughly 850 feet of surveyed passage, with Rob always crawling backwards as he surveyed. The D survey (Snail Shell Squeeze) ended in a wide passageway that was only six inches high and likely connects with a surface sinkhole.
On Saturday Carlin dug at the C Survey passage with just a rock, trying to reach the sound of flowing water. On Sunday he easily cleared the mud away with a crowbar in less than fifteen minutes. Rob and Dave had to dig fifteen minutes more before they could join him. They found a passageway with flowing water, but the leads from there are additional digs.
Grant and Steve described their trip during the bat count at Hancock Cave. Two groups had little success at finding bats (only 4 or 5 were counted all day). The scouts were especially impressed by the Breakdown Staircase, and Preston led them into small squeezes (including the Flying Zamboni Passage), including one that led to an overlook that dropped down fifteen feet. The scouts crossed the Toilet Bowls but found water filling the Funnel Tunnel. The Comic Book (Cartoon) Hole offered amusement, and the scouts found navigation (even with a map) a challenge when they were seeking the exit.
Rob Harris shared a brief version of his bat count team’s experience in Hancock Cave. They found it tough to go up the Breakdown Staircase, and one member refused the climb up. One at the top refused to climb down. To reunite their team, Rob discovered that 30-foot deep fissures would not work. Instead he relied on the scouts’ team to lead them to the Corn Cob Crawl (a difficult climb up) to get them back together.
After a two-minute break, Howard lowered the lights and introduced the program. Ken Walsh shared a presentation by Dave Socky about the CRF exploration of Gap Cave, Virginia, formerly known as Cudjo’s Cave.
After the meeting gathering was held sitting outside in balmy November air at Armadillo Grill.
NC Museum of Natural Sciences
Tuesday, November 22, 2011
Attendees (14): Steven, Travis, Ava, Howard, Hayden, Mark L., Bryce, Laurel, Allison, Carlin, Pete, Ken, Steve and Grant attended the meeting. Rob’s floating head in Charlotte appeared on Ava’s screen and occasionally spoke.
Howard Holgate led the meeting and conducted the business in short order. The Holiday Party on Saturday, December 10 will once again replace the December meeting. Howard plans to host the Holiday Party again this year at his home nestled amid Cary/Holly Springs neighborhoods. He will send out an Evite to the TriTrogs list serve to ensure that he doesn’t end up with the multitude of desserts that were generously provided last year (and left at his house). The leftover desserts did apparently find their way to a sorority house during Finals Week.
Howard plans to display the potential T-shirt designs at the Holiday Party and have everyone vote on their favorites. [He did not mention whether or not he is still accepting submissions for designs]
In terms of upcoming trips, the following two were discussed:
December 3 – Travis is planning a sport trip, possibly to Worley’s/Morrell Cave in Tennessee
December 31 – Ken, Steve, and Grant may be planning a sport horizontal trip
Ken mentioned that the grotto had not made a charity donation this year. Suggestions were made to donate money to WNS research, the museum where we hold meetings, or cave conservancies. After a short discussion and a proposal, the TriTrog members voted to donate $200 to the Friends of the Museum. Pete H. will get Mark L. in touch with the right person.
Carlin shared a trip report about surveying in Cold Sink Cave (Smyth County, VA). His weekend plans had fallen apart, so he contacted Dave Duguid about joining that trip. The cave had been listed as Big Spring Cave on previous maps, but the lack of a spring or even a resurgence point suggested that this title had been a misnomer. The frost in the sinkhole at 11 AM on a warm fall day warranted the name change to Cold Sink Cave.
Carlin reported that two teams began the survey on Saturday and that they returned to the cave on Sunday. They netted roughly 850 feet of surveyed passage, with Rob always crawling backwards as he surveyed. The D survey (Snail Shell Squeeze) ended in a wide passageway that was only six inches high and likely connects with a surface sinkhole.
On Saturday Carlin dug at the C Survey passage with just a rock, trying to reach the sound of flowing water. On Sunday he easily cleared the mud away with a crowbar in less than fifteen minutes. Rob and Dave had to dig fifteen minutes more before they could join him. They found a passageway with flowing water, but the leads from there are additional digs.
Grant and Steve described their trip during the bat count at Hancock Cave. Two groups had little success at finding bats (only 4 or 5 were counted all day). The scouts were especially impressed by the Breakdown Staircase, and Preston led them into small squeezes (including the Flying Zamboni Passage), including one that led to an overlook that dropped down fifteen feet. The scouts crossed the Toilet Bowls but found water filling the Funnel Tunnel. The Comic Book (Cartoon) Hole offered amusement, and the scouts found navigation (even with a map) a challenge when they were seeking the exit.
Rob Harris shared a brief version of his bat count team’s experience in Hancock Cave. They found it tough to go up the Breakdown Staircase, and one member refused the climb up. One at the top refused to climb down. To reunite their team, Rob discovered that 30-foot deep fissures would not work. Instead he relied on the scouts’ team to lead them to the Corn Cob Crawl (a difficult climb up) to get them back together.
After a two-minute break, Howard lowered the lights and introduced the program. Ken Walsh shared a presentation by Dave Socky about the CRF exploration of Gap Cave, Virginia, formerly known as Cudjo’s Cave.
After the meeting gathering was held sitting outside in balmy November air at Armadillo Grill.
October 2011 TriTrogs General meeting
NC Museum of Natural Sciences
Tuesday, October 25, 2011
Attendees: 18 Cavers: Mark Daughtridge, Howard Holgate, Ava Pope, Hayden Holgate, Gordon Bolt, Carlin Kartchner, the hovering head of Rob Harris, Martin G, Mark Little, Brian Sakofsky , Steve Molnar, Grant Molnar ,Bithika, Ken Waslh, Lisa Lorenzin, Mike Broome, Matthew Lubin, Scott Bellavia
General socializing 7:30 to 7:41
Meeting start 7:41
Old Business- T-shirts- Art submissions!! One more from Martin, one from Mark D, Howard suggested delegating it to a committee, but none was appointed or further discussed. Suggestion to use online polling software to finally settle the question.
New Business- Holiday party to be determined by e-mail
Trip Reports-
Carlin went to TAG. 1100 ft of rope work including Fantastic Pit . Balcony is sketchy for rigging rope, bolts have moved due to fracture, rig off BFR (Big Rock) instead. Cemetery pit, other lesser known pit. Slot rock
Mark Little ACC board mtg Bristol plus 1.5hr drive. Reopened caves, not requiring decomm between- applies to ACC owned caves- Gilley cave. Visited Gilley with extremely elaborate, impressive welded gate, tricky to open/find locks. Lock caves behind them as they go in- made nervous about getting stuck so someone stayed behind. Few thousand feet explored, nice formations, pictures. Near entrance has been vandalized with graffiti etc. 115 miles beyond Marion VA. Near Pennington Gap, VA Key got stuck in lock when re-locking for about 30 minutes.
Rob Harris went w/ VPI grotto near Blacksburg, VA, trip leader injured at a party so changed caves to SmokeHole, wet exit about 300 ft of swimming in cold water to go out that way. Boot driers worked well, Rob enjoyed the dip. Pack stayed fairly dry.
Upcoming Trips
Nov 5 Hancock bat count
Nov 6 Lovers Leap/Worley’s survey
Nov 12 WV Cave Conservancy Banquet
Nov 19 Survey trip? Dave Duguid organizing
Nov 19 Cavers Learn WNS in TN- see e-mail. Eastern TN see TriTrogs site for details
Vertical training- date to be determined
First Aid 10 interested, TBD
Program
Carlsbad Caverns- video of swallows emerging
Cave Research Foundation. Well lit pictures with electric lights (parts commercial, Ken got into wild parts too.)
Sulfuric acid formed the cave so unique formations very different from East Coast
CRF founded in 1957. Cooperates w/ Nat Park Svc, Dept of Interior
Gates, monitoring, surveying, cataloging entrances, restoration trips, etc.
Membership required, Svc hours from cavers count toward grant proposals for NPS
Active projects listed
Re mapping because 1960’s map was done quickly and lots of errors
Natural entrance zig zag to big pit. Carved a new entrance. Hotel right above the natural entrance
Nice weather in late Sept. Big Ampitheatre near it. Walkways steep
Bat flight at night viewed from ampitheater no cameras allowed at all!
Lots of Guano and cave swallow droppings. Hosed down every Wednesday
Desert Centipede seen.
Cave over 27 miles long. Some still not explored yet. Most exploration is going on in Lechuguila
Papoose room lots of cool formations. Surveyed .
Queens Chamber. Tours stand in the dark for 15 minutes while rangers lecture, so no surveying or lights allowed during that time.
Helictites, covered in gympsum
Sten lights made great pictures long exposures
Kings Palace room also impressive
Some leads in Carlsbad are stout climbs.
7 people on the survey
Had to leave someone on the trail to keep visitors on track.
Boneyard section was lots of round solutional holes, hard to photograph, leads to lower levels without rappelling.
Looks a lot like Swiss cheese.
Appetite Hill formations stalagmites very sharp and straight come up and covered and water evaporates quickly. Humidity about 60% in Lechuguila, unknown in Carlsbad
The BIG Room Largest Cave chamber in the US by area.
www.Caverbob.net lists all the superlatives for caves.
Surveying the big room, lots of time for good Photos
Used Aquasocks to protect floor formations in some spots. Shoes were clean each day, white dust fell off easily, and no brown mud anywhere
Cave Trays. Maybe form on top of water on shields? Shelf hanging from stalagtite
Celery stalk, Lions Tail, very unique formations
Resurveying is improving the trails already.
38 foot high totem pole formation
Breast of Venus formation about 8 ft across
Final survey stations good shots.
White sands New Mexico just acres of gypsum, powdery sand.
Applause for the presentation
Some survey stations marked with embedded brass markers.
Surveyed 1/5 of mile and ½ big room trail. All together mapped about 2 miles of easy survey. Did not inventory formations. Used Distos and tape. Ceilings over 200 ft high, disto couldn’t go quite that high.
Next month, more depth on Gap cave by Ken, another ACC owned cave
Meeting done at 9:04
After meeting meeting was held at Armadillo Grill.
Tuesday, October 25, 2011
Attendees: 18 Cavers: Mark Daughtridge, Howard Holgate, Ava Pope, Hayden Holgate, Gordon Bolt, Carlin Kartchner, the hovering head of Rob Harris, Martin G, Mark Little, Brian Sakofsky , Steve Molnar, Grant Molnar ,Bithika, Ken Waslh, Lisa Lorenzin, Mike Broome, Matthew Lubin, Scott Bellavia
General socializing 7:30 to 7:41
Meeting start 7:41
Old Business- T-shirts- Art submissions!! One more from Martin, one from Mark D, Howard suggested delegating it to a committee, but none was appointed or further discussed. Suggestion to use online polling software to finally settle the question.
New Business- Holiday party to be determined by e-mail
Trip Reports-
Carlin went to TAG. 1100 ft of rope work including Fantastic Pit . Balcony is sketchy for rigging rope, bolts have moved due to fracture, rig off BFR (Big Rock) instead. Cemetery pit, other lesser known pit. Slot rock
Mark Little ACC board mtg Bristol plus 1.5hr drive. Reopened caves, not requiring decomm between- applies to ACC owned caves- Gilley cave. Visited Gilley with extremely elaborate, impressive welded gate, tricky to open/find locks. Lock caves behind them as they go in- made nervous about getting stuck so someone stayed behind. Few thousand feet explored, nice formations, pictures. Near entrance has been vandalized with graffiti etc. 115 miles beyond Marion VA. Near Pennington Gap, VA Key got stuck in lock when re-locking for about 30 minutes.
Rob Harris went w/ VPI grotto near Blacksburg, VA, trip leader injured at a party so changed caves to SmokeHole, wet exit about 300 ft of swimming in cold water to go out that way. Boot driers worked well, Rob enjoyed the dip. Pack stayed fairly dry.
Upcoming Trips
Nov 5 Hancock bat count
Nov 6 Lovers Leap/Worley’s survey
Nov 12 WV Cave Conservancy Banquet
Nov 19 Survey trip? Dave Duguid organizing
Nov 19 Cavers Learn WNS in TN- see e-mail. Eastern TN see TriTrogs site for details
Vertical training- date to be determined
First Aid 10 interested, TBD
Program
Carlsbad Caverns- video of swallows emerging
Cave Research Foundation. Well lit pictures with electric lights (parts commercial, Ken got into wild parts too.)
Sulfuric acid formed the cave so unique formations very different from East Coast
CRF founded in 1957. Cooperates w/ Nat Park Svc, Dept of Interior
Gates, monitoring, surveying, cataloging entrances, restoration trips, etc.
Membership required, Svc hours from cavers count toward grant proposals for NPS
Active projects listed
Re mapping because 1960’s map was done quickly and lots of errors
Natural entrance zig zag to big pit. Carved a new entrance. Hotel right above the natural entrance
Nice weather in late Sept. Big Ampitheatre near it. Walkways steep
Bat flight at night viewed from ampitheater no cameras allowed at all!
Lots of Guano and cave swallow droppings. Hosed down every Wednesday
Desert Centipede seen.
Cave over 27 miles long. Some still not explored yet. Most exploration is going on in Lechuguila
Papoose room lots of cool formations. Surveyed .
Queens Chamber. Tours stand in the dark for 15 minutes while rangers lecture, so no surveying or lights allowed during that time.
Helictites, covered in gympsum
Sten lights made great pictures long exposures
Kings Palace room also impressive
Some leads in Carlsbad are stout climbs.
7 people on the survey
Had to leave someone on the trail to keep visitors on track.
Boneyard section was lots of round solutional holes, hard to photograph, leads to lower levels without rappelling.
Looks a lot like Swiss cheese.
Appetite Hill formations stalagmites very sharp and straight come up and covered and water evaporates quickly. Humidity about 60% in Lechuguila, unknown in Carlsbad
The BIG Room Largest Cave chamber in the US by area.
www.Caverbob.net lists all the superlatives for caves.
Surveying the big room, lots of time for good Photos
Used Aquasocks to protect floor formations in some spots. Shoes were clean each day, white dust fell off easily, and no brown mud anywhere
Cave Trays. Maybe form on top of water on shields? Shelf hanging from stalagtite
Celery stalk, Lions Tail, very unique formations
Resurveying is improving the trails already.
38 foot high totem pole formation
Breast of Venus formation about 8 ft across
Final survey stations good shots.
White sands New Mexico just acres of gypsum, powdery sand.
Applause for the presentation
Some survey stations marked with embedded brass markers.
Surveyed 1/5 of mile and ½ big room trail. All together mapped about 2 miles of easy survey. Did not inventory formations. Used Distos and tape. Ceilings over 200 ft high, disto couldn’t go quite that high.
Next month, more depth on Gap cave by Ken, another ACC owned cave
Meeting done at 9:04
After meeting meeting was held at Armadillo Grill.
Monday, October 10, 2011
September 2011 TriTrogs General Meeting
NC Museum of Natural Sciences
Tuesday, September 27, 2011
Note: There was no August 2011 meeting as a rousing pool party was held instead. Trip reports from August include that no one tripped and fell into the pool. A couple people may have been pushed but most jumped in willingly.
Attendees: 15 Cavers: Howard Holgate, Ava Pope, Hayden Holgate, Bryce Schroeder, Carlin Kartchner, the hovering head of Rob Harris, Martin Groenewegen, Peter Hertl, Brian Sakofsky, Neil Brooks, Cassandra Houston, Steve Molnar, Grant Molnar, Amar chawla, Mark Daughtridge
General socializing 7:30 to 7:44 including Howard manning the door since guard was away and we didn't have the sign to call the room Ken normally posts, but we made one on the fly and stuck it up just as the guard came back and Howard went down to start the meeting anyway.
Meeting start 7:45
Old Business- T-shirts- Art submissions!! 3 are in from Martin. Others originally due and decision to be made by September Meeting.- Extension of 2 more weeks to submit designs to Howard by e-mail. Then e-mail voting will commence!
Receipts from Grotto Trip still to be re-imbursed
Red Cross training desired 8 people at previous meeting would be interested in a course. Mark D will ask Danny M about options, cost, dates, locations 10 tonight expressed interest, assuming that includes the original 8.
New Business- none
Trip Reports
OTR- Brian reported on another trip to Shovel Eater cave
Peter talked about his OTR experience too, competed in vertical skills and did a few hours of caving
Carlin went to Gap Cave – gear provided including new vertical gear. Vertical section only open 4 months a year. Historic signatures beyond the gate, civil war era etc. Surveyed, documented pictures, long 3.5 hour retreat with a strained shoulder. Gap Cave is near VA/KY/TN border
Upcoming TripsGrand Caverns trip with Baltimore Grotto 1st weekend of October- survey training
10/6-9 TAG Fall Cave-In (http://www.tagfallcavein.org)
10-14 to 16 Fall VAR- Bath County, marvelous caves- Breathing Cave,Wishing Well, etc
11-5 Hancock Bat count
11-19 Cavers Learn WNS in TN- see e-mail.
Vertical training- date to be determined, Pete and Mark D
First Aid 10 interested, TBD, Mark D.
Program
Bryce presented on Lava Beds National Monument.
Elevation 4000 ft? orhigher. In CA near Oregon Border. Nearest city is Klamuth Oregon, 40 min away
Volcanic activity as recently as 1000 years ago. Most tubes 30-40K years ago. Come vertical connections with collapses between.
Historical artifacts, lots of Native American activity historically
Lots of Bats, packrats, and some snakes
World’s only confirmed site of aerosol rabies from Mexican Freetail bats. That cave is closed!
North of Modoc Nat. Forest
Caldwell Trench is a collapsed lava tube about 60 ft deep at some spots. Open top now with vegetation
750 caves in the area
Soil is pumice and terrain above is desert, high elevation and cold
Several developed caves along cave loop road. CCC put in trails, stairs, rails etc in 1930’s. Also brought in pumice which moved around and detracts form caves’ natural beauty
Caves still being discovered.
Holes around above ground so be careful. Deer fell into one developed cave and distressed tourists.
No gold, only algae.
A few formations, and a few secondary from later water flow, but nothing like limestone caves
Lava tubes are newer and still collapsing, and more dangerous. Older caves have had eons of earthquakes etc to stabilize them
Lava sicles like ice cicles of rock. Neat webbing patterns
Some caves have chimneys built as lodges or smoke houses.
Bat Superhighway is one cave name.
Rare rubber boa snake that only eats crickets.
Sentinel was hot. Caves small enough to vary with outside temp. Most very dry unless it’s actually raining.
A few caves have year round ice, but closed in summer to protect the ice
Don’t rely on cheap helmets sold in the gift shop
Meeting done at 8:52
After meeting meeting was held at nearby watering hole of Armadillo Grill which seemed to lack the normal kitchen staff but managed to feed us well anyway.
Tuesday, September 27, 2011
Note: There was no August 2011 meeting as a rousing pool party was held instead. Trip reports from August include that no one tripped and fell into the pool. A couple people may have been pushed but most jumped in willingly.
Attendees: 15 Cavers: Howard Holgate, Ava Pope, Hayden Holgate, Bryce Schroeder, Carlin Kartchner, the hovering head of Rob Harris, Martin Groenewegen, Peter Hertl, Brian Sakofsky, Neil Brooks, Cassandra Houston, Steve Molnar, Grant Molnar, Amar chawla, Mark Daughtridge
General socializing 7:30 to 7:44 including Howard manning the door since guard was away and we didn't have the sign to call the room Ken normally posts, but we made one on the fly and stuck it up just as the guard came back and Howard went down to start the meeting anyway.
Meeting start 7:45
Old Business- T-shirts- Art submissions!! 3 are in from Martin. Others originally due and decision to be made by September Meeting.- Extension of 2 more weeks to submit designs to Howard by e-mail. Then e-mail voting will commence!
Receipts from Grotto Trip still to be re-imbursed
Red Cross training desired 8 people at previous meeting would be interested in a course. Mark D will ask Danny M about options, cost, dates, locations 10 tonight expressed interest, assuming that includes the original 8.
New Business- none
Trip Reports
OTR- Brian reported on another trip to Shovel Eater cave
Peter talked about his OTR experience too, competed in vertical skills and did a few hours of caving
Carlin went to Gap Cave – gear provided including new vertical gear. Vertical section only open 4 months a year. Historic signatures beyond the gate, civil war era etc. Surveyed, documented pictures, long 3.5 hour retreat with a strained shoulder. Gap Cave is near VA/KY/TN border
Upcoming TripsGrand Caverns trip with Baltimore Grotto 1st weekend of October- survey training
10/6-9 TAG Fall Cave-In (http://www.tagfallcavein.org)
10-14 to 16 Fall VAR- Bath County, marvelous caves- Breathing Cave,Wishing Well, etc
11-5 Hancock Bat count
11-19 Cavers Learn WNS in TN- see e-mail.
Vertical training- date to be determined, Pete and Mark D
First Aid 10 interested, TBD, Mark D.
Program
Bryce presented on Lava Beds National Monument.
Elevation 4000 ft? orhigher. In CA near Oregon Border. Nearest city is Klamuth Oregon, 40 min away
Volcanic activity as recently as 1000 years ago. Most tubes 30-40K years ago. Come vertical connections with collapses between.
Historical artifacts, lots of Native American activity historically
Lots of Bats, packrats, and some snakes
World’s only confirmed site of aerosol rabies from Mexican Freetail bats. That cave is closed!
North of Modoc Nat. Forest
Caldwell Trench is a collapsed lava tube about 60 ft deep at some spots. Open top now with vegetation
750 caves in the area
Soil is pumice and terrain above is desert, high elevation and cold
Several developed caves along cave loop road. CCC put in trails, stairs, rails etc in 1930’s. Also brought in pumice which moved around and detracts form caves’ natural beauty
Caves still being discovered.
Holes around above ground so be careful. Deer fell into one developed cave and distressed tourists.
No gold, only algae.
A few formations, and a few secondary from later water flow, but nothing like limestone caves
Lava tubes are newer and still collapsing, and more dangerous. Older caves have had eons of earthquakes etc to stabilize them
Lava sicles like ice cicles of rock. Neat webbing patterns
Some caves have chimneys built as lodges or smoke houses.
Bat Superhighway is one cave name.
Rare rubber boa snake that only eats crickets.
Sentinel was hot. Caves small enough to vary with outside temp. Most very dry unless it’s actually raining.
A few caves have year round ice, but closed in summer to protect the ice
Don’t rely on cheap helmets sold in the gift shop
Meeting done at 8:52
After meeting meeting was held at nearby watering hole of Armadillo Grill which seemed to lack the normal kitchen staff but managed to feed us well anyway.
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